Signatures on COAs - What's the truth? Some real, some prints?

Discussion in 'Cinemaquette Chat Noir' started by Gruson, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. Gruson Little Miss Chatterbox

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    Ok,
    I have always wondered about the signatures on the COA papers.
    Are they real signatures? Are they prints?
    Are some real and others prints?
    I seem to have heard conflicting data. I heard the Stan Winston sigs were real. Another source said said that the Arnold signatures are copies and not real...another said the Ford signatures are real and that's why it cost a lot more.
    Can anyone confirm if any are real? Just wondering...I have never really even looked at mine, as I do not display them.
    Thanks
     
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  2. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    I don't think anyone knows for certain Gruson, though there are enough CM owners here at CBD to be able to pool together enough comparison pictures to be able to work out whether the sigs are 'real' or copied from a master certificate.
    I had an email conversation with the owner of Coolwater Productions Ltd, who handle autograph signings for many celebrities, including Harrison Ford, a few years ago. If you follow this link you will come across an article (from April 18 2008) which confirms that HF was so impressed with the CM that he agreed to sign the master certificate for CM...
    "From APRIL 18, 2008:
    Coolwaters Productions LLC is pleased to announce that we have secured the personal approval of Mr. Harrison Ford for the new INDIANA JONES CINEMAQUETTE from TOYNAMI!
    Mr. Ford was so impressed with the detailed attention to this fully licensed product that he personally signed the master Certificate of Authenticity! Mr. Ford does not often lend his name to a licensee & Mr. Ford's signature is hard to obtain as it is, so the fact that he gave permission to Toynami to replicate it for their certificate proves that this Indiana Jones collectible MUST be "top notch". These will be produced in a VERY limited quantities, so order now!"

    Anyway, getting back to the point... the owner of Coolwater Productions told me back then that as far as he knew, the only signature that was 'real' at the time (and this is around April 2008) was Giger's - though he wasn't one hundred percent sure on the others.
    I have both the T-X and the T800 (both bearing SW's sig), and there does seem to be some variation in the vertical position of the signatures relative to the line used for signing - though I am pretty convinced the signatures are the same.
    Personally this debate has never really bothered me that much. The signature itself, be it real or copied form an original, signals at the very least some involvement and approval from the actor/designer concerned. To me, that is worth so much more than just a simple number on the bottom of a base, or a registered trademark on the side of a box.
    Sure a real signature would have been even better, but that would likely raise the price again for something that a lot of collectors don't actually display.
     
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  3. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    i kind of thought that it would be hare to sign 500 certificats, maybe 100 but more, thats tuff , i never gave it much thought now im going to see the stan and the arnold one, see if there is a difference
     
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  4. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    Great thread. I think I could get a scan of my CoA signatures for the sake of comparison.
     
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  5. Gruson Little Miss Chatterbox

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    Ok,
    I asked George about a couple of them:
    Arnold's sig was used by his machine that signs like him.
    HF and Winson's sigs are not real either but prints.
    Giger's signature is real on the base, I forgot to ask about the COA.
    I believe Steve Wang's is real.
    That's all I asked about because I had to get on another call.
    Hopefully someone else can confirm the others...I will if I remember the next time I talk to CM.
     
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  6. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    so if they are by a machine does that mean arnold didnt approve the cm? because i would like to at least hope that he did approve it
     
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  7. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    rrjrstatueman wrote 9 hours earlier »
    so if they are by a machine does that mean arnold didnt approve the cm? because i would like to at least hope that he did approve it


    Needless to say, replicating someones signature without their approval would be illegal and subject to prosecution.
    It's just about whether they're hadnsigned or not because some of these original signatures can go for a pretty penny.
    Looking at the Alien's base, I'd agree that this one is individually signed by Giger. Even more reason to question why the value of this piece is still so neglected.
     
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  8. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    Gruson wrote 11 hours earlier »
    Ok,
    I asked George about a couple of them:
    Arnold's sig was used by his machine that signs like him.
    HF and Winson's sigs are not real either but prints.
    Giger's signature is real on the base, I forgot to ask about the COA.
    I believe Steve Wang's is real.
    That's all I asked about because I had to get on another call.
    Hopefully someone else can confirm the others...I will if I remember the next time I talk to CM.


    Thanks for this Gruson. Interesting stuff. How old is this information? I mean, was it the result of a recent conversation with George?
    We know that HF's is copied from an original. I would imagine the signature by George on the GF is real.
    rrjrstatueman wrote 11 hours earlier »
    so if they are by a machine does that mean arnold didnt approve the cm? because i would like to at least hope that he did approve it


    As Lars said, CM would not be able to use the sig without Arnie's approval.
    Being that he is the Governor of California, I can quite believe he has a machine to sign for him. It would be rather cool if this was an Endoarm holding a pen attached to an elaborate series of ropes and pulleys wouldn't it?
     
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  9. Enzucho Opionated

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    Very interesting stuff gru, thanks for inquiring,
    I had completely forgot about the giger signature on the back of the alien base, I believe he signed it marker if my memory serves me
     
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  10. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    jet_force_juno wrote 5 hours earlier »
    It would be rather cool if this was an Endoarm holding a pen attached to an elaborate series of ropes and pulleys wouldn't it?

    I will admit that this was about the picture I had in mind when I first read that comment. :write:
     
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  11. phil the sixth Charter Lounger

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    jet_force_juno wrote 5 hours earlier »
    Being that he is the Governor of California, I can quite believe he has a machine to sign for him. It would be rather cool if this was an Endoarm holding a pen attached to an elaborate series of ropes and pulleys wouldn't it?

    LOL,wouldn't that be a sight...
     
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  12. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    Enzucho wrote 5 hours earlier »
    I had completely forgot about the giger signature on the back of the alien base, I believe he signed it marker if my memory serves me

    This is correct, and there are pictures about of him doing it.
    I imagine he signs the plates in batches and then CM attach them to the base. It would have been neat if all CM's had come like this, but I imagine the cost to get HF et al to hand sign large quantities of display plates would be rather large. In addition, they aren't really that noticeable at the back.
     
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  13. Enzucho Opionated

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    No really arent that noticible nor do you point them out to onlookers, Hell I completely forgot about it
     
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  14. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    well i checked my signatures and defenatly they are all machine, the arnies and the stan winston, they are all to perfectly matched even in the small endo bust i have , it matches exactly as the cm
     
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  15. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    rrjrstatueman wrote 9 hours earlier »
    well i checked my signatures and defenatly they are all machine, the arnies and the stan winston, they are all to perfectly matched even in the small endo bust i have , it matches exactly as the cm

    You have the unique advanatge raf of being able to compare two COA's from two pieces at the same time.
    I am pretty sure then that every piece aside from the Predator and Alien carry facsimile sigs. But as I said before, this doesn't, to me at least, diminish the personal involvement of the subject in the creation of the pieces.
     
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  16. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    Yeah I don't care much about original, facsimile or Endo arm induced either, but again, I deem the certificate itself a little mediocre, if only for it being hard to display adequately.
    The Alien base was actually quite the cool and discreet way imo. Wonder if Gig himself had requested that little twist.
     
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  17. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    Lars wrote 1 hour earlier »
    Yeah I don't care much about original, facsimile or Endo arm induced either, but again, I deem the certificate itself a little mediocre, if only for it being hard to display adequately.

    To be fair though, when it comes to certificates, CM's are the best out there - especially compared to the poor or non existent efforts of other companies. The certificate HCG out out with their 1:1 Predator bio was quite shocking. Literally a piece of white paper sporting a design which looked like a 14 year old had knocked it up one afternoon in Microsoft Publisher.
    CM had the good sense to go with one template design for all the certificates. I agree they are not easy to display, but like the CM boxes themselves, it is more in the actual knowledge that you have these items around, rather than the act of actually being able to do something with them!
     
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  18. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    very good points, i would have to agree well put
     
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  19. Enzucho Opionated

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    I personally would not dispaly my COA, but like to have them soley to validate the pieces, they to me are just good to have... I dont ever see myself displying them..
    I do however agree with you lars about the alien piece and the small plaque that bears gigers sig. with the fact that all of the CM are extremely limited I would think that ot wouldnt be to terribly hard to get an actor or creator to signe 200 or 500 of them as opposed to some of the other posters and stuff that they do end up signnig a ton of... But the actual sig on the piece to me is the ultimate, not so much visible from the front, but just the way they did it on the alien piece
     
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  20. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    A.K.47 wrote 2 hours earlier »
    Read a new post on SF regarding the T-800 COA:
    Seems there is some conflicting information about the Stan Winston signature, because last year Raf pretty much determined it was a print by comparing his Stan Winston signed COA's. So, what's the truth?

    These stories seem to do the rounds every now and again.
    Jeff posted on page one of this thread that he spoke wth George and he said the SWS signatures were copied from original certificates. That assertion holds true if you've ever compared multiple signatures for the T-X and T-800 side-by-side.
    Again nothing definitive on the CM website, and no official word beyond the occasional query during a phone call and a subsequent forum post.
     
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